Interviews
I began interviewing people within the criminal justice system after I became deeply moved by the story of Marcellus Williams, a Black man who was executed for a crime he didn’t commit. Williams’s case opened my eyes to the reality of wrongful convictions and inspired me to help innocent people gain their freedom. As I learned more, I began to think not only about those who are innocent, but also about the many individuals who, though guilty, are still caught within a deeply flawed and unjust system. Interviewing so many incredible people involved in social justice has been enlightening, and brought me closer to my goal of helping create a better, more humane prison system.
Please select the interview you wish to view.
Jason Bostic
Contributor and Justice Ambassador for Project Restore Bed-Stuy
Jason's Story
Question: How did you get interested in social justice?
Answer: It kind of just fell into my lap. I was part of a program called Project Restore Bed-Stuy. It came out of Justice Ambassadors, which was founded by Jerrell Daniels at the Center for Justice. I was straddling between dropping out of school—my sister was murdered—and trying to figure out a trajectory for my life. When I got into the program, I first had an incentive just to show up, but then I also got to learn a lot about my history. Once I was exposed to higher education, I fell in love with it. And once I got an internship at Columbia, I thought: this information shouldn’t just be withheld to people at this institution and myself. So I decided to teach it in my community—and that’s how my start happened.
Question: How do you feel young people can get involved in social justice these days?
Answer: I think we’ve got to make reading cool again. We need to start reading about our ancestors and the people before us. Once we understand what happened—all the oppression, the injustice, the inhumane things that happened to people who look like us—I think we’ll be more than motivated to continue the fight.
Question: How do you think we can balance accountability with rehabilitation, either in criminal justice reform or elsewhere?
Answer: First, we need to make institutions that are supposed to be for rehabilitation actually about rehabilitation. It shouldn’t be something people profit from by making it private institutions to fatten someone else’s pockets. It should be centered in psychology and in ways to make people feel better. With that, accountability would serve itself. I don’t think people need to serve lengthy sentences—more time in jail than they spent outside—to know that they’ve changed. They just need to take the necessary steps, and we need to track that better.
Question: I just want to hear more about what you’re doing right now.
Answer: Project Restore was life-skills sessions. The higher education I mentioned being exposed to—we’re now replicating that because we got more funding. We’re doing it in Bed-Stuy and in Brownsville. I’m teaching four different groups life-skills sessions, hoping they can make the same transition and trajectory into higher education and college.
Question: Do you think what you achieved is unique to you, or can anyone make this kind of change?
Answer: I definitely think this can be for anyone. At the Center, we say all the time: we’re not unicorns, we’re not anomalies—we were just exposed to resources. If we can figure out ways to get these same resources into everyone’s hands, then everyone can make that transition. I went from having no ID and no track in life to being a Columbia student in just one year, because I had resources and support. If we can build that and bring it to more communities, everyone could make that same transition.
Question: If you could name two resources that are pivotal for communities, what would they be?
Answer: First, the Center. If people can’t eat, if they can’t support themselves financially, they won’t even show up. We’ve got to get them to show up in the first place. Second, a support system. The world’s leading cause of child maltreatment is neglect. People often join gangs as substitute families to fill that lack of support. If people have a real support system, a sense of status and acceptance, they can thrive as anything—outside of being affiliated with a street crew.
Khaliah Ali
Mentor, Advocate, and Daughter of Muhammad Ali
Board Member, Juvenile Law Center
Khaliah's Story
Question: How did you both get interested in social justice?
Answer: I was very fortunate to meet Jason [Flom, Khaliah Ali’s husband and a founding Innocence Project board member] about 30 years into his career. But prior to meeting him, my father, boxer, Muhammad Ali, had a very rich history in this space. I feel like a lot of the work I’m doing now is a continuation of my father’s work alongside Jason. Before meeting him, I was on the Juvenile Law Center board and was specifically concerned with issues surrounding children.
Question: How can young people get involved in social justice or criminal justice reform?
Answer: Short and simple—vote. Be aware of your surroundings, upcoming elections, and legislation. Local elections are huge. Most people don’t vote in DA or judge races, but your vote has the most impact there.
Question: How do you think we can balance rehabilitation and accountability for people who may not be innocent but are still in the prison system?
Honestly, the system is broken. Most of our time is spent helping people patch their lives together when they come home because resources just aren’t there—or they’re out of touch with reality. Some are forced into drug rehab when they’ve never touched drugs. Others are told to take jobs in environments that retraumatize them.
Jarrell Daniels
Founder of Justice Ambassador for Project Restore Bed-Stuy
Jarrell's Story
Question: How did you get interested in social justice work?
Answer: Honestly, it was by coincidence. I think I was first introduced to social justice organizing in prison, through the Nation of Islam. That’s when I learned about the civil rights movement, or what they call the Black liberation movement, especially the efforts of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. So I was introduced first to the historical piece of community organizing and its relation to Black liberation in this country. Then, when I came home, I took a college course with Professor Geraldine Downey, and that was my introduction to policy advocacy and criminal justice reform—really social justice work more broadly. When I came home, I felt like I had a responsibility to play a role in contributing to change, especially because I had been part of the problem going into prison.
Question: How do you think young people can get more involved with social justice these days?
Answer: Young people can start with what they love—social media. They can use it to dispel false information and misinformation, raise awareness around voting, or support campaigns for elected officials. That’s digital advocacy. But if people want to roll up their sleeves and get involved in the community, there are practical things too. You can go to a local community center and tutor students, and that tutoring can include civic education—helping young people understand politics and see their role in shaping decision-making, locally and beyond. In general, young people have to be motivated to be part of the movement. They need to see that the long-term benefits matter for their own wellbeing. Some young people aren’t aware of what’s happening politically or civically engaged, so the target should be working with vulnerable communities first. That’s how we begin resurrecting consciousness.
Question: How can we balance accountability and rehabilitation in the criminal justice system?
Answer: Accountability is a double-edged sword. The way government and the public usually think about accountability is very individual-focused. If someone commits a crime, we hold them accountable—especially if there’s a victim involved, which I understand. But we rarely address the structural conditions that led to the crime. Did that person grow up in poverty? Did they experience abuse as a child without healthy coping mechanisms? Those conditions often lead to behaviors that break the law. Crime is most prevalent in poor, low-income communities, but we haven’t seriously addressed poverty or created opportunities for people to move away from it. At the Center, we try to hold both systems and policymakers accountable for enacting change, while also empowering people who are most vulnerable to crime. We fight on both fronts.
Question: Can you tell me more about Project Restore?
Answer: Sure. I actually invited the prosecutor who handled my case in 2012 to join Justice Ambassadors. Together with others, we designed Project Restore as a policy proposal. We recognized that New York City had been doing mass gang arrests for the last 15 years—the evolution from broken windows policing to stop-and-frisk, and then to sweeping gang arrests of 15, 20, even 100 people at a time. The critique is that this approach casts too wide a net instead of investing in changing people’s trajectories. So the vision behind Project Restore was to give people involved in gang or gun conflict an opportunity to change their lives. Maybe they didn’t need to go to jail, but we wouldn’t know unless we tried another route. We designed it as a 12-month intervention with a holistic approach—everything they needed to thrive. That included paid employment to meet basic needs, case management for immediate needs and long-term goals, critical life skills training, opportunities for healing from trauma, and internship placements for professional development.
For a full year, participants worked with us 20 hours a week. We worked with 30 people from two sides of a rival conflict. Out of those 30, ten are now college students. We believe Project Restore is a model that could change public safety infrastructure if scaled. It’s a meaningful investment compared to the traditional costs of incarceration and policing.
Question: Do you have three tips for high school students who want to get involved?
Answer: First, find what you’re most passionate about. Then look for an organization already doing that work. Second, reach out. Nonprofits are always stretched thin. If you send a cold email offering to volunteer, they’ll welcome it. You’ll support their mission, but you’ll also build professional relationships and gain skills that can apply to your future career. Third, treat it like a taste test. As a high school student, you don’t know exactly what you want to do yet. Volunteering lets you try things out before committing. Some students realize the work is harder than they expected and move on, but others stay for years. Either way, you learn what fits your passion.
Question: Can you tell us more about your own background and trajectory?
Answer: I was born and raised in the South Bronx, and I still live there. The zip code I grew up in had the highest rates for health issues, STD transmission, violence, and poverty. Schools weren’t preparing us for college. We didn’t even have librarians or libraries.
The high school I went to had scaffolding around it for ten years—it felt more like walking into a facility than a school. I dropped out after two years. Some things have changed now, but real change only comes from community investment. Today, I’m a second-year PhD student at NYU studying psychology. My research looks at developmental risk factors that lead to youth gang involvement and incarceration, and I’m working to design evidence-based interventions to help change trajectories. I don’t want to just publish research for academia’s sake. I want research that empowers people, helps them meet personal goals, and shows the value of education. My goal is to become a professor while still being hands-on—facilitating access to higher education, jobs, and resources people need to succeed.
Jason Flom
Founder of Lava Records and Founding Board Member of the Innocence Project
Jason's Story
Question: How did you both get interested in social justice?
Answer: My origin story goes back to 1993. I happened to pick up a copy of the New York Post—a paper I never usually read. An article caught my eye, and I was clearly meant to see it. It was about a young man named Stephen Leonard, serving 15 years to life for a nonviolent, first-offense cocaine possession charge in a maximum-security prison in New York State. His mother had been fighting for clemency from Governor Mario Cuomo, but had been turned down—even though she had letters of support from the sentencing judge and even Geraldine Ferraro. When I read that, it shook me. I had been sober for eight years at that point. Stephen was 32, I was 32. I thought, that could have been me—wrong place, wrong time. I decided to do something. I knew one criminal defense lawyer, who agreed to take the case pro bono even though he said it was hopeless. Six months later, we were in a courtroom in Malone, New York. I sat holding Stephen’s mother’s hand as they brought him in shackled like a serial killer. The arguments went back and forth. Then the judge came back and said, “Motion is granted.” That was the best feeling I ever had. I thought, I’m going to keep doing this for as long as I can, as many times as I can.
Question: How can young people get involved in social justice or criminal justice reform?
Answer: If voting feels overwhelming, start small. Post on social media, go be a court watcher, pay attention to what’s happening. You don’t need money or resources—just engagement. Podcasts are also a great way to learn. Wrongful Conviction or Righteous Convictions feature leaders in this space. You can take what you learn and apply it to your own skills—maybe it’s design, maybe it’s TikTok—use whatever you’re good at to bring attention to an issue. The most important thing is to do something. There’s always something you can do.
Question: How do you think we can balance rehabilitation and accountability for people who may not be innocent but are still in the prison system?
Answer: The real solution is stopping things at the top of the funnel. Desperation is what drives crime—desperate poverty, desperate mental illness, desperate hopelessness. For example, the most stolen item from drugstores is baby formula. Parents aren’t reselling it; they’re feeding their children. The opposite of desperation is hope. When you invest in communities—fix streetlights, clean up garbage, create green spaces, after-school programs, mental health care, job training—crime goes down. Cities like Chicago and Baltimore are proving this right now. We also need to remove the stigma of a record. As Bryan Stevenson says, people are better than the worst thing they’ve ever done. Sometimes, it’s as simple as giving someone a second chance. For example, there was a student with a full-ride scholarship to college who accidentally dropped a gun out of his backpack at an event. He had never been in trouble before, but he was arrested, lost his scholarship, and faced prison. His teachers and family mobilized and spoke in court. The judge gave him a second chance. Today, he’s thriving—he graduated at the top of his class and runs a successful business. If he had gone to prison, his life would have been destroyed. That’s the difference second chances make.
Geraldine Downey
Professor at Columbia University and Social Justice Advocate
Geraldine's Story
I began by asking Professor Downey how she became interested in social justice, and she told me all about her Irish background. In Ireland, she started her work at a shelter for unhoused young men, and soon got involved in a study that looked at industrial schools or probation for young men who have committed crimes. After she performed research to identify connections between her subjects, she discovered that young men who commit violent crimes usually come from the projects or experience family violence. Then she started doing social justice work with the young men, work that eventually brought her to the United States and to Columbia University.
I followed up by asking Professor Downey if there was one experience in particular that had shaped her, and she told me about her work at the University of Michigan, where she volunteered to work with children who were visiting their mothers in prison. This was her first experience working with incarcerated women, and as she looked around the room, she noticed she was one of the only white women—she was surrounded by women of color, and they were serving very long sentences that didn’t necessarily fit the severity of their crimes. In her following research, she found that there were very few Black women in college, far more Black women than white women in prison, and that most of the white people attending college came from wealthier areas. Growing up in Ireland, Professor Downey was accustomed to religion—not race—causing most of the country’s problems, so this was an unfamiliar dynamic to her. Going forward, she became committed to creating more equitable justice and educational systems.
Professor Downey also mentioned, when I asked about her favorite story, a program at Columbia called "Miller's Children Book Club" at Sing Sing that brings together prosecutors and people at the end of their prison sentences, helping to educate them both. The people who are incarcerated get credit for school, while the prosecutors get education credits. According to Professor Downey, the incarcerated students really enjoy the program. She also mentioned another program that she’s involved in that teaches justice ambassadors about young New Yorkers from underserved communities and the higher rates of incarceration for people who come from these neighborhoods. Additionally, she cited college programs for people in prison as the part of prison reform that stands out most to her. These college programs have helped to transform many imprisoned people into leaders, especially those who had to drop out of school early to go to prison. Indeed, many people from disadvantaged communities attend prison at a younger age, which is why college programs are so crucial for prisoners who hope to get a higher-level education.
I also asked Professor Downey how she felt that young people could get involved with criminal justice reform, and she said that it’s important to be interested and take classes, and to support online initiatives as much as possible. She mentioned one young woman from California who was researching prisons in Norway and comparing them to prisons in the United States—as well as attending many conferences, this woman asked to meet with Professor Downey and ended up presenting her work to her. Now she’s going to be attending Columbia in the fall, and she continues to do lots of advocacy work.
I concluded by asking Professor Downey how she thought we can balance accountability and rehabilitation. She said that while it’s important for people to be held accountable for crimes on all different levels, people are not able to express accountability without having rehabilitation. The problem, however, is that many opportunities are not available in New York prison systems—for instance, many classrooms have closed down because there isn’t enough staff. But if prisoners are given the chance to see that there is value in their work, then they are more readily able to take responsibility and understand that their work can make a real difference.